Leadership Coach, Rachel Power, came to talk to us about tackling the "what now?" so many of us face in our careers as we hit midlife, though really, this conversation could be useful for anyone asking that question!  

 

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[00:00:00] Have you spent your life helping other people to be successful at the expense of your own success? Have you got to a stage in your life now where you feel that you have so much more in you to give to your career? That's the subject of our podcast today. And I'm here with Rachel Power, whose power approach helps people who want to step into their limelight in their own career at this stage in their lives. 

 

Hi, Rachel. Hi, Jo. Thanks so much for joining us. Your book has just come out, hasn't it? My book is called Redefining Career Success, Taking Charge with the Power Approach. It's been a long time in the making, but it's come off the back of me being told that I'd reached my potential. So it's interesting how you introduced us just now. 

 

Yeah, that's an interesting thing to be told, isn't it? You've reached your potential. I mean, we're continuously growing, aren't we? And we never stop growing. I hope.  

 

Well, I think, and it's the best thing that could have ever happened to me, to be honest. But I think at the [00:01:00] time, Yeah, it really stuck with me in my tracks because I was only just turned 40 and I was like, really, I've reached my potential, really? I've got a long way till, till hopefully a long way to go till the grave. So yeah, it was quite triggering.  

 

So your background is in leadership coaching, isn't it?  

 

I spent 20 years in corporate being a leader. Then I had this, you've reached your potential, which really then set me on a bit of a, What are you doing? Where are you going? Who are you? And that's what led me into the leadership development coaching. Because what I realized is I had been a coach all that time, but I didn't even realize that's what I was doing. Probably due to my people pleasing tendencies. I didn't really even know what I was doing. I was too busy doing rather than being. So yeah, now I help people either through one to one coaching or leadership development programs with corporates just to help people realize, and that's what I really care about, that we haven't reached our potential until we die. [00:02:00] And it's too late, but until that moment, as you say, we're, we're growing. 

 

Yeah. Well, we know, don't we? There is a problem in the workplace. A lot of women when they hit midlife, I believe it's something like one in 10 leave the work workplace when they hit menopause and they think that it's due to brain fog, hot flushes, not having the support in the workplace to help them through those kinds of, of issues. Has that been your experience as a leader?  

 

I can't think of anywhere where I've seen people leave myself, but I know the statistics. In fact, I think statistics are higher than the one in ten, but I do see people becoming smaller and playing it small because they are feeling, well, you lose your confidence, don't you? Because if you start to have brain fog or hot flush. I remember I was working for a lady. It was going through the menopause and she's very open about it with me, but it was very difficult to be open about it with the senior leaders. And it was really challenging for her. I remember we came out of a meeting, she was just like, I am sweating and trying to hold it all [00:03:00] together, which is really taking a lot of mental energy. 

Isn't it? If you're trying to hold it all together and you can't be your authentic self. And the reason you can't be your authentic self is because we're all programmed to turn up in like dominant leadership positions. power. Yeah, it's tricky. So yeah, I haven't seen people leave per se, but I've certainly seen people struggle. 

 

The study that I was looking at was talking about women going part time as well in order to cope with the challenges that brain fog and so on brings. We were talking earlier, weren't we, about Lisa Mosconi's book, The Menopause Brain, and how there's a graphic in there that shows a woman's brain pre menopause, during perimenopause and afterwards and the amount of energy going through the brain was significantly reduced during the perimenopause phase. Now, it didn't mean that she didn't have the same intellect or the same ability, but explains why she was possibly losing her word retrieval and her ability to concentrate the things that you want to be on your game at. 

 

Because by the time you're [00:04:00] In your forties, you're probably, if you're in a corporate career, you're probably quite high up in that career. It must be terrifying to suddenly think, hang on, I'm losing that faculty. I think so. And I think there's also that piece, which I talk about a lot in the book actually about having the support network in place because if you go in at that alone, then it can become very isolating because then you start to turn on yourself and you're not good enough and all of those good things that we do to ourselves. 

 

Rather than really focusing on how can I be my best self in the physical conditions that I'm in. And I always say that actually, when we're doing workshops, I always talk about today, everyone's having a different experience, how you show up today is going to depend on how much sleep you've had, like, what have you eaten? What mood have you come from? Where have you been? And that we're all having these different experiences and people aren't even always aware, are they?  

 

But, you know, just to be like, just because you're showing up how you are now, you've got no idea where someone else is at, so just to have a little bit of empathy and awareness, I guess, of, Other people, so I always [00:05:00] try to, to say that, but I think it's yeah, there's a lot of work to do in this space. What I found interesting as well, I think there's a lot of work to do individually, because we've all got our responsibility. And that's the whole piece with my book about take charge of your career. It's like, what can you do and how can you take responsibility for things? And then you've got the system side, but I always get quite frustrated when people are like, we've got to fix the system. Because I'm like, well, the system is actually people, isn't it? There's no, you know, like it's not a thing, so it's not like it takes two and the bit you can, and I always come back to this, the bit you can change and take charge of is what can you do? And what can you control? Cause we can't control and change anyone else, but we can control and change ourselves, which is sometimes uncomfortable, isn't it? 

 

Cause you don't, I don't know if you heard that thing again, when you're pointing at someone else, there's three fingers pointing back at you. I said that in a work group the other day and everyone was like, how do you know this? And I was like, yeah, so when you're blaming everybody else, like three fingers pointing back at you, which is uncomfortable, right? 

 

I agree with you that, you know, our self [00:06:00] responsibility is, is paramount, but we also need cultures in the workplace. That support our menopause isn't regarded as a protected characteristic, and I'm not sure that I agree that it should be. But it does come under the Equalities Act. You need extra time for something, things like that. 

 

Menopause symptoms should be recognized as a reason for. Maybe going home early one day or, you know, because you haven't slept all night because you've been up all night, you know, with night sweats and you've changed your bed linen twice and, you know, so there's all those things. And I think that the awareness that we have now about menopause needs to be taken into the workplace. 

And there is some responsibility, would you say, for employers to recognize that some support might be needed?  

 

Yeah, I really do. And I think there's a long way to go. So I was actually in my last corporate job, I was part of the women's network for the UK. So we did the big menopause day thing. And it was [00:07:00] fascinating because it was open to all employees. 

Not many men came and the men that did come, they were very open actually. So what brought you here? Well, I've got a wife, I've got team members. I don't know anything about this. So I think that that was a couple of years ago now. You don't hear that often of it really being embraced. 

 

And I think there's that whole piece about as women, it's great. And we have to educate ourselves and understand because I was clueless and I don't remember my mom ever talking about going through the menopause, but when I look back, I can probably tell you when it was, when it was, we didn't know whether she knew. I don't know. Cause it wasn't even spoken about. Was it? But it's one thing, women knowing it, but it's another thing, men understanding and knowing it. And then they need to, don't they? Cause they might not be going through it, but they're surrounded by other people who potentially. Okay.  

 

Okay. And this is what they don't realize is that their lives are going to be affected by it as well. 

I mean, I've noticed a real sea change in the interest in men towards menopause. When I was going through it, [00:08:00] it certainly wasn't something that my husband wanted to talk about, you know. And I do remember that I, I thought I was going mad. I didn't know what perimenopause was or menopause was at 44. 

 

And my mother certainly never talked about it. Like you say, you couldn't pinpoint when it happened to her, when, when you think about it. But I remember going through hell really because I thought I was losing my mind and I suddenly, you know, through my research, through talking to different people, through seeing, you know, specialists and things like that, had that realization, Oh my goodness, my hormones are changing. 

And it can cause this and this and this and this. And I remember I sent my children a message in the family chat saying I'm not going mad. I'm in the menopause. Yay.  

 

How did they receive that? What did they say?  

 

Well, apparently there was a private thread that I wasn't included in that went, has mum gone mad? I think [00:09:00] they thought, why do we need to know this? But my whole sort of like, you know, drive has been, I don't want my daughters to go through what I went through. And now they're now in their late thirties, so they need to start to be preparing for perimenopause. But my husband, when I sat at the breakfast table and said in front of my husband and son about it, my son was, oh, okay, you know, not, not particularly interested, but okay, you know, and my husband was, you know. It's a taboo thing, right? It's a taboo thing. It's a bit, but it's, it's a fact of life, isn't it? It is, it's a thing. Whenever I talk, men come up to me or they'll buy my book. Oh crap. I'm 50 and say oh I need to know more about this or could this be the reason my wife does this or and I think well a I'm not A. marriage counselor and B. I'm not a medic medically trained But it's certainly worth, you know looking into things. 

Don't go home and say I think you're in the menopause when she's raging at you. I don't want to [00:10:00] be responsible for your safety!  

 

Do you know that's just reminded me of something about, I read somewhere, I think it was a meme somewhere, about all the challenges in the world was like, just put 10 menopausal women onto that one and you'll get it sorted out in no time. 

 

So true. Yeah, yeah, there is something called menopausal zest as Margaret Mead called it, you know, where, that energy comes back and we're kind of, you know, ready to go, but it's that transitional period. And I think that if you're in a career and it's a career that you love and you want to stay in and you want to progress in, it is a responsibility of the employer to help you as well as yourself, you know, stepping up. 

 

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. It's interesting as well. So as part of how Power your Potential, so the business that I started after I've been told I'd reached my potential we're looking at how can we do those things and fill in the leadership gaps because traditional leadership [00:11:00] development doesn't include any of these things. And to be a, to be a good leader and to create those systems when we're talking about how do we change systems or the systems of people and the people are, it's going to be changed through leadership is how do we educate people on the bits that never get spoken about. Cause that's where the real magic is. 

 

So awareness of people and menopause being one of them. So that's my ambition as we move forward to be able to go into organizations, to talk about all these elephants in the room and the things that aren't included in traditional leadership development. And that as well is where the book comes in with the taking charge of your own career. So you'll hear in big organizations, it's your responsibility, but nobody tells you how. Especially as a people pleaser, I just thought you had to turn up, get a job, make money, get a house. That's your job done. Nobody's teaches you this stuff and how to do it.  

 

Your P.O.W.E.R approach - power is not only your surname, but it's actually your acronym, isn't it? 

Which is very handy because it means if you do have a brain fog day, [00:12:00] you can remember! 

I mean, you say in it, nothing changes if nothing changes. So action is required and that's, you know, struck chord with me. You're absolutely right. We do have a choice to take action if we're struggling. Can you tell us a little bit more about the Power approach?  

 

Yeah, sure. So P is for Personal Paradigm Awareness. 

So this is just taking stock of where you even are in life. And I think, as I go through the book, just talking about how our beliefs are created, attitudes, starts obviously from childhood. But how you see the world. Or don't see the world is based on your experiences, your beliefs, your attitude, but you can change those. 

So just because you've seen, seen it from one angle, that doesn't mean that's it. And I think there's a big piece we were talking earlier, weren't we? About the whole growth mindset versus fixed mindset. But just having that awareness of the personal paradigm that you live in. So that's the P. So, just being clear, What is this? 

I think as Jo Martin calls it, the [00:13:00] cultural soup we're swimming in. Like where, what is, where are we? What is society? How do I see the world? Because how I see the world and how you see the world, Jo, are different and how anyone listening to this podcast, they're going to see the world differently to us too, because it's all based on our beliefs and attitudes and experiences. 

 

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that because one of the statistics that you quoted in your book really shocked me. It was saying that they believe that only 10 to 15 percent of people have self awareness. That blows my mind because we all think we're self aware, don't we?  

 

It's funny because I used to think I was, and now the more I know, the more I don't know, if that makes sense. 

There's so much we don't know about ourselves. Like, do we really know how our brains work? Do we really know how our bodies work? Do we really know how they both work together? Are we really aware of how everyone's perceiving us? Because the first time I was shocked by the statistic, and then the more I think about it, the more I'm like, no, actually, most people are not aware. 

[00:14:00] In fact, I was running a workshop yesterday about giving and receiving feedback with a quite big company. And yeah, people are not aware. And the conclusion was, It's about the person that you're giving it to rather than about you, but because we all live in our own heads and it becomes about us, doesn't it? 

Whereas actually the purpose of giving feedback was actually about the other person. So yeah, yeah, it's a shocking statistic, but if you really, really think about it, it's not surprising that we don't know much about ourselves. Cause we don't, unless we choose to go and investigate and learn about ourselves, which is how I've ended up on this journey, I suppose, from being told to reach my potential to now like, Oh, okay. 

Let's find out everything I can about me. So that is, yeah, that's personal paradigm awareness.  

 

Right. And then we go on to the O.  

Yes. So, O, own your own value. Which sometimes starts off with actually trying to figure out what is your value before you can even own it. You've got to figure out what it is, which is what I had no clue about really, [00:15:00] Jo. 

When when I got told this whole, I've reached my potential and then started to go into this, well, what are my strengths? What are my values? What am I about? I couldn't articulate that. So I had to go on quite a lot of deep work to do that. And that's one of the main things that I do in one to one coaching with people. 

And I think a lot of the time people don't know, you know, like your strengths are innate, how you show up and how you do things is just how you do it. So you think it's normal, but most of the time that's not actually normal because other people don't do that and then you can't see it. So yeah, the big part of owning your value is first of all, figuring out what is the value that you can ask and you add the value by being clear on your strengths and your values. 

 

Yeah, just, just to rewind slightly, what did they mean when they said you'd reach your potential? Were they talking about what context was it in? Were they talking about whether you were going to be promoted or not, or that kind of?  

 

Yeah, so I'd reached my potential in that department, so I wasn't going to be going any further. 

Which is interesting because looking back, it's the best favor I could have ever had because I didn't really want [00:16:00] to, and I didn't even know what I wanted. And I look back and actually look back at something. I was laughing at myself as I often do now, but about 10 years ago, I probably had my perfect job, but I was so fixated on getting to the next level and I should have this job title and I should have this salary. 

And that wasn't focused on what, what it was I was doing and what value. That gave how that fulfilled me or anything like I wasn't on that train at all. I was just on this. Oh, that's what you're supposed to do because you're meant to climb this ladder and success is based on how far can I get up this tree in this organization. 

 

But yeah, about 10 years ago, I had a role project role that I fell into and used to run big, big conferences, used to host them, all the things that I love doing now. I never really valued it and I didn't value it in myself. And I, I, and I also went through a cycle of thinking, well, the people don't value it. And that didn't really matter because I think you've got to start with, do I value and can I [00:17:00] see what value I bring before we start worrying about do other people see it's valuable? Like do you see it's valuable? Cause otherwise if you can't see it, how's anyone else supposed to see it? So yeah, 10 years ago I had the perfect gig and didn't realize that I did. 

Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? How the world works. And I do believe in that whole, the universe keeps serving you up. Until you see it, because yeah, I was on that wheel a few times and I didn't see it at all. And now I'm like, Oh wow. But now I get to do it in lots of different organizations rather than one. So, so it worked, it worked out in the end, but I'm like you you know, it takes me,  

 

I sometimes think I'm a slow learner. I think I learned that five years ago. Hang on a minute. Why am I needing to learn that again?  

 

Yeah, I really, really believe it. It'll keep, it'll keep bringing you the lesson till you've really, you've really got it. Really got it. Yeah. Oh gosh. So the W in P.O.W.E.R. Yes. So that's all about wielding your power. So how are you gonna show up as your best self, the self you want to show up as? 

And again, I [00:18:00] don't think we're necessarily thinking about that. And then we dive into like how much sleep you've had the night before. Are you eating the right food? All of those things impact how you're gonna show up and how you can really wield your power. And it's not about power over people. And we were talking about that, weren't we, before we started recording this, that leadership doesn't mean power over 

at all. But I think as a whole, well, it's maybe going to be my next book, redefining what leadership is, because I think a lot of people I work with, they think to be successful, and I suppose a bit like me saying, I need to climb this ladder thing to be successful, you need to be the one who's putting the power over everybody. 

It's like, no, that's not what leadership's about at all. Wielding your power is how you're using your intrinsic power rather than giving it away. And I know. For way too long, I was giving my power away in all the, all the wrong places. And a lot of people I work with feeling like they don't have any power, which goes back to what we were saying on what can you control and what can't you. 

So it's just taking charge of those [00:19:00] things that are within your control. And that's how you can wield your power to, to move forward.  

 

Do you think that a lot of times it's women who find it difficult to wield their power or do you think it's fairly even?  

 

It's a really interesting question. So I think, The more I work with mixed groups, the more I think it's not a gender issue. 

I really, really don't think it is. I've got no stats to prove that other than when I work with mixed groups, you see men with the same challenges and it actually, and I've got no research to back this up at all, Jo, but I wonder sometimes if there's an introvert/extrovert thing going on as well. 

That's interesting. So I've got no, maybe, maybe I should do some research on that, but Yeah,  

 

I'll give you a little bit more resource for your next book! Let's go on to the E of Power.  

 

Yeah, so that's all about evolving your support network. And I really debated actually if it was going to be evolve or expand your support network because [00:20:00] depending on, do you even have a support network? 

And again, I work with some people who are a bit like, Oh, what do I need other people for? Oh, wow, and I used to be like that, I think, very ... I have to do this all myself. I'm not a success if I can't do this all myself. Because actually, it's not very realistic to think we can do anything by ourselves. 

And if you really think about that, it's actually maybe a little bit egotistical to think you can do everything by yourself. But I think some challenges, particularly for women, actually In terms of back to what we were saying on the social and cultural side is we've become that superwoman thinking we do have to do everything and like the world's changing, isn't it? 

And we want more women in leadership. We want more women in the workplace, but at the same time, that means something's got to change in the home life. There's a saying, and it basically, we're always not doing a very good job at anything because we're trying to do too many things. So the whole evolve your support network is about. 

Yeah. How'd you evolve it? Have you got the right support network, not just internally in a workplace, but [00:21:00] externally in your house, in your home, who's doing everything. And that doesn't necessarily mean you have to be paying people. But if you can, then really invite people to think about if you can afford to, then yeah, get a cleaner. 

If you can afford to, if that's going to help you. Evolving your support network is also just about thinking about where do you want to be? Who do you want to be? And again, we don't, this sounds awful, but sometimes the people from our past are not necessarily the people that are going to take you to where you want to go next. 

And sometimes we're going to do a little bit of a declutter, which sounds awful, but. Yeah, that's one of those facts of life, isn't it? Unfortunately, I do like the word evolve as opposed to expand actually, because as you say, as you go through life, you need different things, and from different people and you, you know, you can give different things to different people as well. 

It's not all take. The idea of evolution, I think, is amazing. more dynamic really than the expansion, because managing all these relationships is a job in itself. You know, if you have too [00:22:00] many that you're trying to juggle, I think that a lot of women perhaps don't think about the support networks in their personal lives so much. 

 

Yeah, don't think about it always, or they're not there. Right. R.  

 

R. Probably the most underutilized one in my experience of working with people. Which probably goes back to that piece about our self awareness, but it's about releasing your emotional baggage. My biggest learning on my self discovery journey is how much emotional baggage I've been carrying my whole life. 

Some of it is not even mine, stuff where we don't want to feel. Because it doesn't feel very nice. This is interesting, actually, when I was at the trauma conference, I mentioned, Gabor Maté, the key message was you got to feel into the pain. So if you want to experience joy, you've got to experience the downs as well. 

You can't choose which emotions we want to tune into. So yeah, huge piece. And I've done so much work. And I think the other thing is it's not just a one and done. Oh, you just released the [00:23:00] emotional baggage and move on. It's like, well, then you need emotional hygiene to, to keep clean in terms of emotions. 

So that's been quite a a big piece for me and it's hard because you've got to lean into things that potentially are uncomfortable and you don't want to revisit. In fact someone I don't speak to anymore, but somebody in my evolving network had said to me, do you not think you've done enough navel gazing now? 

You need to get on with stuff, which really frustrated me. I haven't, because I haven't, for 40 odd years, I haven't done any of this stuff. So I've got, It's not navel gazing. It's like, actually, it's a big, you can almost see that decluttering a bit like your network.  

 

But navel gazing is, is very passive. It's ruminating on things and not moving forward. Whereas what you've been doing is examining things., And as you said, Gabor Maté said, lean into emotions and so on, it's actually work, you know, and it's, it's evolving. It's not passive, like navel gazing. That's just a misunderstanding about what self [00:24:00] development work is, isn't it?  

 

I think it's a massive misunderstanding, but yeah, that releasing your emotional baggage, like you said, it's a process. 

I've not thought about it in this way before, but it is like decluttering out all this stuff that's, and it's holding you back. And it's, I don't know if you're familiar with the book, The Body Keeps the Score. And the more I learn, the more I'm like, yeah, this is all connected. It's so connected. And if you're holding on to all this stuff you haven't processed, it's going to show up in your body somewhere. 

It's your health, you know, you do have to sort of process all this stuff. Painful though it can be.  

 

Can I ask you about the little creature behind your head? A little creature? Ralph. Ralph. This is Ralph. So Ralph came about from, I was doing a session at a university on the inner critic. So I did a little sketch. 

So yeah, I had to come up with someone I was going to take on stage with me. So it was to indicate your inner critic. So I'm sure anyone listening to this podcast, [00:25:00] you'll know what your inner critic is. But yeah, just that little voice that's always criticizing. Which I've learned to tame mine over time. 

Taming your inner critic and it's always going to be there and it's there to keep you safe. But it just doesn't mean it has to rule the roost and I think mine ruled the roost for, for way too long. Well very often your inner critic has the voice of somebody like, you know, your father or, or your teacher at school that told you you'd never get anywhere or, you know, it's so negative. 

 

But if you can actually, you know, I mean, I've said before, I've said it out loud. Now you can stop that. I know what you're thinking.  

 

I do. I do that so much. Like, thank you. Thanks for that. It's not really helpful right now. So we're going to have to move on. And yeah, saying it out loud and people laugh at me.Cause with clients, I'll be like, I'll give it a name. So mine is called Ralph for reasons I won't disclose on the podcast.  

 

All your circle will now be going, who's Ralph? Who's Ralph.  

 

Some people will know who Ralph is [00:26:00] probably. Yeah. Just giving it a name, people think it's a bit weird, but actually it's like, just give it a little bit of distance. 

And it's not a bad thing, it's just doesn't need to have all the power, which goes back to the power thing, doesn't it? Don't give your power away to your inner critic.  

 

Yeah, oh well, thank you for coming to talk to us, it's really interesting. And I loved your book, I thought it was very practical and, It's got real actionable steps in it that you can take to get to know yourself a bit better and think about what you want to do with your career at this time in your life. 

So I'd thoroughly recommend that and I'll put a link to it in the show notes. If you'd just like to say your website out loud for people that don't see the notes, then where they can find you. Thanks, Jo. So my website is www. poweryourpotential.co.uk yeah, come and have a look. We've also got a quiz on there about what your career success saboteurs might be, what's getting in your way. 

So yeah, come and have a look if you are interested. Brilliant. I'll put the [00:27:00] link to the quiz also in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you. You've been listening to the Midlife and Beyond podcast with Jo Blackwell, where we're changing the narrative on aging, one story at a time.